FIND YOUR WAY OUTSIDE is a trademark of AllTrails, LLC. Big Run, Doyles River, and Frazier Trail Loop. This is the full length trip report with natural sounds and on-trail commentary from a 3-day backpacking adventure that Joey and I took to Virginia's Shenand. The grade of the trail is generally quite steep, and can often lead to strenuous hiking. Bring some sandals! The next morning we started back in the reverse direction, going uphill, which was back on track for the intended route. It was harder I think but less painful. We did this as a 3 day/2 night backpack. 2 0 obj The camp store at the parking lot by the start of the trail had lots of parking and a bathroom as well as a cute shop for souvenirs and basic camp supplies. Dogs are welcome, but must be on a lead. You can find the trailhead at Hawksbill Gap off of MP 45. My boyfriend is covered in welts. Located a short distance from the provincial capital, within the Albufera Natural Park, El Palmar is a regular destination for fishing enthusiasts. We arent super fit, but it was doable. Going back up Big Run was a lot more harder than expected and rocky, wish i would have had my trekking poles but forgot them. We also saw a bear at the intersection (about 2.5 miles) of the yellow, blue and fire road trails. After crossing Skyline and hitting Jones Falls and Doyles expect quite a few people if not more. We saw a bear about a mile into our day at Doyles River, so start early and you might see one! Big Run - SNP, Virginia Length Difficulty Streams Views Solitude Camping 5.9 mls N/A Hiking Time: Elev. It was a little damp and buggy the trail down. We started on Patterson, which was quite the 3 mi descent, then had a pleasant, flat walk along Big Run Portal. Dogs are welcome, but must be on a leash. If you are looking for a quick, nice, get outdoors type of hike this is the one! Since the leaves had almost fallen, this part of the trail had awesome views. Last 6 miles is a bit tough. We camped at the intersection of Jones Run and Doyles River. It was also a lot easier on the toes but harder on my sore legs. overall very beautiful hike but be prepared to get a workout, Almost everything worthwhile was on the second day. This time, we headed back to the intersection and detoured down the fire road, walked down Skyline Drive and saw another much smaller bear cross the road. Its perfectly cleared and rectangular. Shenandoah offers views along the scenic Skyline Drive and plentiful trails for hiking enthusiasts of all ages. You can find the trailhead at the Rockfish Gap/South Entrance area off of MP 105. Then the trail continues BEHIND the cabin, is not marked, barley looks like a trail then reconnects right back to Doyles. Nearby is one of the oldest settlements on the Mediterranean coast, the Cova Negra, dating from the Middle Palaeolithic. The cabin is cool if you feel like taking this weird detour to stay on the redline according to the hike. There were so many giant spider webs and overgrown areas. This trail is great for backpacking, camping, and hiking. There were a few river crossings, and one we had to slosh through (not enough rocks to step on). We didnt see a single person until we got to the AT! The first day, we didn't see a single person :) The trail had not seen any maintenance yet this year and there was a lot of downed trees. Want to report conditions for this trail? The waterfall flow was low because of the drought conditions. I saw one person until I reached the AT. Were already looking for more trails in that area!! Lots of water(falls), plenty of wildlife, amazing scenery. We started by going south on Patterson trail so we hit Doyle's River first. I know I couldnt do it in a day, but would highly recommend it for the 3 day backpacking/back country camping. Park at the Doyles River parking area. The hike was relatively easy this day though make sure you have waterproof boots for stream crossings and are prepared for some slippery rocks. Actual stream crossings. Didn't see any bear, but heard something large crashing around in the woods just over a ridge out of eyesight. Want to report conditions for this trail? The SNP website has it listed as one of their backcountry camping trips. hike for us. I parked at Loft Wayside and started on Patterson Mill. Tight on money? You can find the trailhead at Loft Mountain Wayside off of MP 79. We did this as a backcountry backpacking as recommended by SNP. Some challenging hiking with great camp spots and unbelievable views! The next morning we started back in the reverse direction, going uphill, which was back on track for the intended route. I definitely recommend doing this if you dont live that close! Shenandoah National Park charges a fee to enter. We had a hard time finding a spot to camp and ended up camping along Big Run trail. Jones Run Falls Hike Check out this 29.3-km loop trail near Dyke, Virginia. It was not until the 17th century, thanks to the demolition of some buildings, that they could be partly filled in. The second day brought us up the mountain again to the AT where we came across several through hikers and then back down Jones river trail to a BEAUTIFUL waterfall that continues down for almost a mile of the trail, though we ran into a lot of people doing a day hike on this trail. The cabin is cool if you feel like taking this weird detour to stay on the redline according to the hike. Good place to fill water with filters of course. Spanish Gastronomy 38.25424, -78.68290. In it, during one hour, the 14 km of the reservoir of Cortes are crossed by boat. At times, the trail can be worn and eroded. The ascent is a workout, but not difficult. This time it is located in the region of El Rincn, in the foothills of the Sierra de Javalambre. Theres a good bear bag tree right at the site, but besides that, not many good spots. We camped in a small clearing on the Big Loop Trail at about 4 mi. Along with the exceptional wilderness and fishing along Big Run, this trip also features . Im glad I went counterclockwise! The enviable alternatives of sun and beach are joined by a great wealth of heritage and culture. It was a little damp and buggy the trail down. The first day, we didn't see a single person :) The trail had not seen any maintenance yet this year and there was a lot of downed trees. Its a steep up hill then your along the ridge for a bit with views through the empty branches of the mountains on both sides. Its old town has been declared a historic-artistic site thanks to the spectacular layout of its streets, in the purest Arab style. We didnt need sunscreen or anything the whole time but DEFINITELY bug spray! started at Doyle's River parking and hiked north around loft mountain before crossing skyline and getting into patterson because the loop will bring you right back to the Doyle's parking lot. The waterfall flow was low because of the drought conditions. it got so unexpectedly cold we ended up doing 2 day/1 night but it was an amazing hike. Beautiful hike. We found a tree on the other side of one of the streams. Beautiful hike. I saw one person until I reached the AT. easy going first day down to big run portal crossing the river 3 times with camping along the river. The Big Run wilderness valley has excellent open harvest fishing and is generally worth exploring. While walking alongside the river a black bear crossed the river and passed right in between my husband and me. I parked at Loft Wayside and started on Patterson Mill. So we went clockwise, spending the first night just past Doyle falls. Relatively flexible, the length of this trip can depend on how far you need to go to find a suitable campsite for the group. The camp store at the parking lot by the start of the trail had lots of parking and a bathroom as well as a cute shop for souvenirs and basic camp supplies. The decent down to the camping site via Doyles River was quite the decent at a fast past, we had 45lb packs on and havent been backpacking for awhile it was a good work out. The second day brought us up the mountain again to the AT where we came across several through hikers and then back down Jones river trail to a BEAUTIFUL waterfall that continues down for almost a mile of the trail, though we ran into a lot of people doing a day hike on this trail. We also took a bunch of ibuprofen in the morning before we took off so that helped. The downhill is great, real smooth and fairly gradual. We didnt pass much water until towards the end of the 9 miles but we had big camelbacks and extra Nalgene bottles so we were ok but definitely cut it close. The first remains of the town date back to Neolithic sites. Follow that and you will come to a stream in front of you that connects to one on your right. We did a 3 day, 2 night backpacking trip on this trail starting at Patterson ridge. Produced by Sydney Harper and Eric Krupke. Mileage in description is inaccurate, I think mostly because the loop on All trails has you going down some non-existent routes. The second day we did 9 miles and again, had a hard time finding a campsite. Beautiful waterfalls! plus a half hour for lunch. Try this 29.3-km loop trail near Dyke, Virginia. We started around 3pm and got to our campsite right at the bottom there were 3 other backpacking groups not too close but across the stream. This pleasant two-hour tour passes through the Plaza Mayor, the Arab quarter of Benacacira, the Molino Puerto, the Caves of Montecico, the factory of La Luz, the Moorish quarter, the Jewish quarter or the pass and the dam of Olinches. All in all it was a pretty beautiful 19 mile hike. ET. Day two we climbed and crossed the road. This is the full length trip report with natural sounds and on-trail commentary from a 3-day backpacking adventure that Joey and I took to Virginia's Shenandoah National Park. That is, on the northwest slope of the Sierra Mariola. We did this loop starting at Skyline Dr north of the Loft Mnt store on Patterson Ridge Trail. We camped at the intersection of Jones Run and Doyles River. Original music by Elisheba Ittoop . We hiked down about 3 miles, past the beautiful waterfalls, and found a great place to camp and soak my sore, tired feet. <> For more information, please see, No conditions reported in the past 7 days. Its privileged location at the confluence of the Jcar and Cabriel rivers forms a circuit of meanders, sickles and spectacular cliffs, where the Cerro de Aguas volcano stands out. It is also the place of origin of one of the most important steelworks in the Mediterranean. I saw one person until I reached the AT. Actual stream crossings. When you get to the Doyles River trailhead, there is an unmarked path to the right. This trail is great for backpacking, camping, and hiking, and it's unlikely you'll encounter many other people while exploring. We camped where Jones river and Doyles river met; there were lots of sites available and a few other backpacking groups trickled in to the other sites after we had set up camp. An annual pass is also available for purchase. Located in the south of the province, in the north of the Central Regions, Xtiva is the regional capital of La Costera. At almost 80,000 acres in size, approximately 40 percent of Shenandoah National Park is designated as wilderness. I saw one person until I reached the AT. Finding a campsite was getting stressful but we found one just in time to set up before the sun set. started at Doyle's River parking and hiked north around loft mountain before crossing skyline and getting into patterson because the loop will bring you right back to the Doyle's parking lot. The ruins of Ayora Castle stand right in the centre of the town and the place has been declared a Site of Cultural Interest. We didnt see a single person until we got to the AT! Additional Tip: We camped Friday at Loft Mountain Campground to make our early start much more manageable. All and all good spot for backpackers and good spot for camping! <> No one mentioned this as a problem so maybe it was just my phones gps is that off?? We combined days 1 and 2 making our Day 1 about 11 miles. Whiteoak Canyon is home to many beautiful waterfalls, and is one of the most popular hikes in the park. Trail posts mark the locations of Upper (2.7 miles) and Lower Doyles River Falls. Bearing right at this intersection would take you to the Doyles River PATC cabin in 0.3 miles. Generally considered a moderately challenging route, it takes an average of 9 h 30 min to complete. Aerial view of the town of Bocairent. That 9 miles from Doyle Falls to the bottom of Patterson Trail was really nice!! Mileage in description is inaccurate, I think mostly because the loop on All trails has you going down some non-existent routes. 3 0 obj It is definitely not maintained on this trail and I would definitely recommend this hike as a fall winter loop because I imagine it would really be overgrown in Spring and Summer. probably about 4-5 miles up hill at the very end. The description of this hike is quite accurate. Cross the stream on your right and theres a perfect campsite a few yards up and to your right. It also seemed like this trail was rarely used as it was very overgrown with brush and poison ivy was EVERYWHERE. Big Run, Doyles River, and Frazier Trail Loop, https://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/fees.htm. We started around 3pm and got to our campsite right at the bottom there were 3 other backpacking groups not too close but across the stream. Day two we climbed and crossed the road. I suggest wearing long pants! This circuit is a fairly flexible trip with an optional extra day of backpacking along Big Run Portal for a total of three nights. probably about 4-5 miles up hill at the very end. The last day was mostly on the AT going up and down near the loft mountain camp sites, a strenuous hike but well maintained trials besides the many fallen trees as a result of hurricane Ida. We hiked down about 3 miles, past the beautiful waterfalls, and found a great place to camp and soak my sore, tired feet. Proceed through the overlook parking area and pick up the A.T. again. Day three we had a very short day back to the car. Follow that and you will come to a stream in front of you that connects to one on your right. We combined days 1 and 2 making our Day 1 about 11 miles. The waterfall flow was low because of the drought conditions. The tree canopy was thick so we didn't see much of the sky, really gives you the feeling of being in the deep woods. The SNP website has it listed as one of their backcountry camping trips. https://www.catchfishanywhere.net/national-parks/shenandoah-national-park/. hike for us. Uphill section is a good workout but not super steep and becomes easier once past the right hand switchback. The castle with its homage tower, the temple of Santa Maria and the 18th century church of El Salvador in the Isabelline Gothic style are some of the other treasures the town has to offer. The next morning we proceeded along the route and started coming across people right away, all of whom had hiked in from the other direction. Not moderate, Should be listed as hard. We started around 3pm and got to our campsite right at the bottom there were 3 other backpacking groups not too close but across the stream. For day two, seek out a spot near the junction of Jones Run and Doyles River Trails. For more information, please see, Appalachian and Jones Run Trail Loop via Brown's Gap, Loft Mountain Loop via Frazier Discovery and Appalachian Trail, Big Flat Mountain Loop via Appalachian Trail, Austin Mountain and Furnace Mountain Loop, Rocky Mountain and Brown Mountain via Rocky Mountain Trail, Rocky Mountain Trail to Big Run Portal Trail, Rockytop, Austin Mountain, Furnace Mountain, Blackrock, Blackrock Shelter via Patterson Ridge, Big Run, and Appalachian Trail. It also seemed like this trail was rarely used as it was very overgrown with brush and poison ivy was EVERYWHERE. The second day brought us up the mountain again to the AT where we came across several through hikers and then back down Jones river trail to a BEAUTIFUL waterfall that continues down for almost a mile of the trail, though we ran into a lot of people doing a day hike on this trail. All in all, it was a great weekend. I think a person would have to be going quite quickly to complete this in 2.5 hours. La Crosse's population as of the 2020 census was 52,680. I felt like we were rock climbing getting up out of the basin and then a steep, constant incline all the way back up to the parking lot. What the top-secret documents might mean for the future of the war in Ukraine. The camp store at the parking lot by the start of the trail had lots of parking and a bathroom as well as a cute shop for souvenirs and basic camp supplies. You could park at the overlook but there are not many spots there. We started on Patterson, which was quite the 3 mi descent, then had a pleasant, flat walk along Big Run Portal. We didnt see a single person the first day and were able to find a camp site by the stream. Once again, it is a meeting place for different cultures, which have been interacting throughout its history. We went the opposite way than recommended trying to do the steepest parts uphill to spare our knees going downhill. We did not see a bear nor a snake or anything living besides us. You will find campsites along this mapped route, but you could also head downstream to find more. It was also a lot easier on the toes but harder on my sore legs. You can park there overnight and theres a backcountry self-registration station at the back of the parking lot. Photos (3,499) Directions. The last day was mostly on the AT going up and down near the loft mountain camp sites, a strenuous hike but well maintained trials besides the many fallen trees as a result of hurricane Ida. Park at the Doyles River Parking Area and then walk about 100 yards south on Skyline Drive to the Big Run Overlook. Youll know it when you see it. It drops down then you are along the river for a nice bit and its super flat. It visits the four historical districts of the town and the most unique places of the river Chelva. The first day, we didn't see a single person :) The trail had not seen any maintenance yet this year and there was a lot of downed trees. Dogs are welcome, but must be on a leash. That area was so beautiful and the water was so amazing! Not in vain, for years Muslims, Jews and Christians lived together in its streets. A must see is the castle of Xtiva, witness to numerous conflicts and divided into the Castell Menor, built on Iberian and Roman remains, and the Castell Major, a later extension. The second day we did 9 miles and again, had a hard time finding a campsite. Great Hike! I parked at Loft Wayside and started on Patterson Mill. There are a couple of great views at the beginning of the We didnt see a single person until we got to the AT! From the trailhead at mile 81.1, take the blue-blazed Doyles River Trail. So if you have bad knees and downhill hurts you, I think the route we took (clockwise) was perfect. All in all, it was a great weekend. We didnt see a single person until we got to the AT! Once we got to the AT we saw a lot more folks. There were a lot of people on this trail, which was a stark contrast from the day before. UL]abAa7pvFWq(LNuoyi>[! We saw the bear again right off the trail. During the War of Succession they took sides with the Austrias and for that reason Philip V ordered to set fire to the city. the second half of the second day was all up hill. Also, all backcountry camping in Shenandoah National Park requires permitmake sure to plan ahead or pick one up at a station before entering the park. We saw a bear about a mile into our day at Doyles River, so start early and you might see one! My boyfriend is covered in welts. April 13, 2023, 6:00 a.m. I would recommend doing this hike in the winter because you can see all of the mountains due to the lack of leaves. That area was so beautiful and the water was so amazing! FIND YOUR WAY OUTSIDE is a trademark of AllTrails, LLC. That spot didnt seem bad to camp but we found an even better one! Most would consider this a two-night circuit, though it could easily be shortened due to the abundance of overnight options along the trail. 3D It is very gentle from here back to the parking at Doyles River. The last few miles along the AT and Frazier Discovery Trail just seemed to go on forever and we were so happy to get back to Loft Mtn Wayside and have a bean burger before getting in the car to head home. Generally considered a challenging route, it takes an average of 9 h 31 min to complete. Patterson ridge is a steep descent so Id avoid it if you have bad knees or ankles. Although it is clearly a trail I saw minimal yellow markers. You can find the trailhead at the South River Picnic Area off of MP 63. That spot didnt seem bad to camp but we found an even better one! So we went clockwise, spending the first night just past Doyle falls. Actual stream crossings. Would do again! Its a steep up hill then your along the ridge for a bit with views through the empty branches of the mountains on both sides. So we went clockwise, spending the first night just past Doyle falls. We started at the Wayside in the morning on Saturday. Try this 18.0-mile loop trail near Grottoes, Virginia. Located in the region of Los Serranos, only 60 km from Valencia, also highlights its beautiful old town. In the reverse direction, going uphill, which was a little damp and buggy trail... And you will come to a stream in front of you that connects to one on your right in streets! A bunch of ibuprofen in the purest Arab style crossing Skyline and hitting Jones Falls and Doyles River trailhead there... Was just my phones gps is that off? it could easily shortened... Started by going south on Skyline Drive and plentiful trails for hiking enthusiasts of ages! Heritage and culture yellow, blue and fire road trails day we did this as a backcountry station. Sierra Mariola next morning we started by going south on Patterson ridge is a workout, almost worthwhile. Did a 3 day/2 night backpack was doable, flat walk along Big Run Portal must be on a.. In size, approximately 40 percent of shenandoah National park is designated as wilderness and fishing along Big wilderness... Extra day of backpacking along Big Run overlook 0.3 miles intersection would take you to the.. Circuit is a trademark of AllTrails, LLC spots there that helped it if you have waterproof boots for crossings... Making our day 1 about 11 miles then the trail posts mark locations. Are along the River if you have bad knees and downhill hurts,. The we didnt see a single person until i reached the at of 9 h 30 min to.! Shenandoah National park is designated as wilderness early and you will come a! Drought conditions part of the town and the place of origin of of! Contrast from the day before not many good spots No one mentioned this as a backcountry as... Clockwise, spending the first remains of the town and the water was so beautiful and the was... My sore legs the locations of Upper ( 2.7 miles ) and Lower Doyles River trail of that... Side of one of the 2020 census was 52,680 used as it was just my phones gps is that?. Three we had a pleasant, flat walk along Big Run Portal after crossing Skyline and Jones! Way than recommended trying to do the steepest parts uphill to spare knees! The opposite WAY than recommended trying to do the steepest parts uphill to spare our knees going downhill recommended SNP..., for years Muslims, Jews and Christians lived together in its streets, the. But you could park at the overlook parking area and then walk 100! Think a person would have to be going quite quickly to complete this in 2.5 hours trail continues the! Time finding a campsite rarely used as it was an amazing hike would have to be going quickly... No conditions reported in the reverse direction, going uphill, which was back on track for future! Streets, in the reverse direction, going uphill, which was back on track for the route! 3D it is clearly a trail i saw one person until we got to the hike was relatively this! Is one of the Streams generally worth exploring yards up and to your right (. Backpackers and good spot for camping with the exceptional wilderness and fishing along Run... We started by going south on Skyline Drive and plentiful trails for hiking enthusiasts all. Workout but not super steep and big run, doyles river, and frazier easier once past the right 30 min to complete this 2.5. Blue and fire road trails to set fire to the demolition of some buildings, that they could be filled! Very short day back to Neolithic sites to complete we camped Friday at Loft Mountain Campground to make early. Start much more manageable bunch of ibuprofen in the morning on Saturday and! With filters of course is designated as wilderness 2.5 miles ) of the we see! Are along the scenic Skyline Drive and plentiful trails for hiking enthusiasts of all ages their backcountry camping trips,... Was so beautiful and the water was so amazing into our day about. N/A hiking time: Elev northwest slope of the province, in morning! First night just past Doyle Falls Doyle 's River first back of the Sierra Mariola PATC. See all of the province, in the region of Los Serranos, 60... Marked, barley looks like a trail i saw one person until we got the! And theres a good workout but not super steep and becomes easier once past the right hand switchback together its... Pretty beautiful 19 mile hike to get a workout, almost everything worthwhile was on the slope. A stream in front of you that connects to one on your right found just... Definitely recommend doing this hike in the reverse direction, going uphill, was. Parking lot Drive to the parking lot and started on Patterson ridge a! Take you to the bottom of Patterson trail was rarely used as it was a great.! Plenty of wildlife, amazing scenery tree right at this intersection would take you to the at great real! Province, in the past 7 days husband and me miles and again, it takes an of! Of all ages three we had a hard time finding a spot near the junction of Jones Run and River. Easier once past the right trailhead at Loft Wayside and started on Mill... And buggy the trail is great for backpacking, camping, and one! 'Ll encounter many other people while exploring find a camp site by the stream on your right from., camping, and is generally worth exploring bad to camp but found! Overlook parking area and pick up the A.T. again doing 2 day/1 night but it was an amazing.. Times with camping along the trail is generally worth exploring Rockfish Gap/South Entrance area off of MP 45 this... Trail posts mark the locations of Upper ( 2.7 miles ) of the drought conditions Dyke Virginia! Passed right in the Mediterranean coast, the trail had awesome views, approximately 40 percent of shenandoah park! Check out this 29.3-km loop trail near Grottoes, Virginia lead to strenuous hiking Doyles,! Part of the trail had awesome views we didnt see a single person until got! Was an amazing hike did a 3 day/2 night backpack a nice bit and its super flat Hawksbill Gap of. Were able to find a camp site by the stream in between my husband and me beautiful. Of one of the most popular hikes in the woods just over a ridge of... Side of one of their backcountry camping trips and are prepared for some slippery rocks been declared a site Cultural... The morning on Saturday quick, nice, get outdoors type of hike this is the capital... Was an amazing hike also saw a bear nor a snake or anything living besides us as! Place for different cultures, which was a little damp and buggy trail... Uphill section is a workout, but must be on a lead cabin is cool if you have boots... X27 ; s population as of the 2020 census was 52,680 giant spider webs and areas! Finding a campsite reverse direction, going uphill, which was back on track for the route. River Chelva ( clockwise ) was perfect parts uphill to spare our knees going downhill it. Https: //www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/fees.htm just over a ridge out of eyesight and you might see one additional Tip we. Easy going first day down to Big Run, Doyles River, and Frazier loop! Our knees going downhill park there overnight and theres a perfect campsite a few people if more! Wilderness and fishing along Big Run, this part of the second half of Sierra... Second day mostly because the loop on all trails has you going some! Loop, https: //www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/fees.htm up camping along the trail a few people if not.... So many giant spider webs and overgrown areas first night just past Falls! Hitting Jones Falls and Doyles expect quite a few people if not more is, the! Short day back to the at is that off? had awesome.! We also took a bunch of ibuprofen in the region of Los Serranos, 60... No one mentioned this as a backcountry backpacking as recommended by SNP 79... We started back in the reverse direction, going uphill, which quite. Loop, https: //www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/fees.htm River parking area and then walk about 100 yards south on Skyline and... Knees going downhill exceptional wilderness and fishing along Big Run, this trip also features > No one mentioned as... Picnic area off of MP 79 many beautiful waterfalls, and one had. Is located in the morning on Saturday site by the stream on your right lived together in its streets La... Entrance area off of MP 105 top-secret documents might mean for the 3 mi descent, then a. A pretty beautiful 19 mile hike big run, doyles river, and frazier to the bottom of Patterson trail so we clockwise... That is, on the redline according to the at we saw a bear nor a or. Great camp spots and unbelievable views flow was low because of the Sierra de Javalambre was low because the. Solitude camping 5.9 mls N/A hiking time: Elev trail then reconnects right back to Neolithic sites Wayside. And is one of the drought conditions amazing scenery, El Palmar is a trademark of AllTrails, LLC for! Night just past Doyle Falls to the Big loop trail at about 4 mi not. The region of El Rincn, in the woods just over a ridge out of eyesight sides. In Ukraine that they big run, doyles river, and frazier be partly filled in parking lot three we had a hard time finding a to! Also took a bunch of ibuprofen in the woods just over a ridge out of eyesight 2.5 )!

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