The NV3500 which is also known as the Getrag has been built for a large variety of truck and SUVs including Blazer, Jimmy, Suburban, Tahoe, Yukon Chevy and GM pickups just to name a few. We won't say a T56 swap is a bad idea, but it's not for the timid or frugal. Made from round tubing, it will mount the recommended Chevy S-10 five-speed transmission into any '49-54 Chevrolet passenger car, except convertibles. The Corolla Hatchback made a triumphant return to the U.S. market in 2019 and returns as a refreshed model in 2023. San Bartolom de Tirajana is a village and a Spanish municipality in the south-eastern part of the island of Gran Canaria in the Las Palmas province in the Canary Islands. . Reimagined by Gazoo Racing, this all-wheel drive hot hatch is seriously motivated by the compact-yet-powerful G16E-GTS turbocharged, three-cylinder engine that outputs an impressive 300 horsepower. Its powered by a 285-horsepower 3.6L V6 and is connected to a six-speed manual transmission. The purpose of the lockup is to couple the engine directly to the transmission's output shaft in Fourth gear for the best fuel economy. GM ASEP technicians can earn their degree in as little as 2 years, kick-starting a fulfilling career in the automotive industry. All of GM's overdrive automatics use a cable connected to the throttle that tells the transmission when to shift. Your manual car is less likely to be stolen because between 44% and 84% of U.S. drivers dont know how to drive a stick. Backing up is a slow process with a 465-equipped truck as well. Opt for the Crosstrek Base or Crosstrek Premium not the Sport, Limited, or Hybrid models, and the six-speed manual comes as standard equipment. Four bolt holes and two locator pins are common to the Chevrolet, and B-O-P patterns. Estimated International Ship Date: We recommend mocking up your installation with the TH700-R4 trans in place and then taking measurements to determine how long your new driveshaft will need to be before having it cut. Complementing your Chevrolet Performance crate engine with a factory-engineerednew or remanufactured performance transmission is a cinch with our comprehensive lineup of automatic transmissions, torque converters and installation kits. ( 1 ), Estimated USA Ship Date: This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission . May 16, 2023, Transmission, Manual, Internal Rail 5-Speed, 26-Spline, 0.82:1 Overdrive, GM, V8, Each, 3.0 out of 5 stars dba Summit Racing Equipment | Trademarks, Everything You Need for Anything You Drive, In Stock at a Summit Racing Location. 28". Richmond's bad-boy overdrive six-speed is a whole different beast from the rest of the six-speeds on the market. The next easy swap involves replacing either a PG or TH350 with the bigger, stronger, and heavier TH400. Use the following information to compare physical description of your Chevrolet or GMC manual transmission in order to identify what model transmission is in your vehicle. modified with some quality off-road parts, REI Unveils Trailmade Gear With More Inclusive Sizing & Design, Unofficially Official: Second-Gen Chevy Colorado ZR2 Bison Coming, on 35s, Volcon Brat: An E-Bike With a Cafe-Racer Attitude. To make this transmission work, you will need the help of FABbot. Parts only when consumer repaired or installed in non-highway application. ( 3 ), Manual Transmission Tremec T-56, 6-Speed, 1 1/8 In. But we hope that one day it will, then Chevy can have a hand in saving the manuals. If you are a driving obsessive that likes to feel your car shift from gear-to-heart-pounding-gear, not to mention lower retail prices and service costs, then we here at Jerry suggest you find yourself a manual car. The following CHEV MANUAL trannys are the same length: 55-57 Saginaw 3sp (pass car) 55-62 Saginaw Vette 3sp. International Customer Options|In the United States? The days of the stick shift are numbered, but if youre a diehard enthusiast looking for a 2023 manual transmission vehicle, you have a few options. While not the fastest, this convertible is one of the most fun cars available, especially for the money. Estimated International Ship Date: This trans swapping guide is for early Chevrolet iron and concentrates particularly on first- and second-generation Camaros. Unlike other carmakers that limit the manual to the lower trim level, the manual is available across all grades. - 26-spline Input, 31-spline Output, Aluminum Case, Chevy, Each Part Number: NAL-19352208 ( 1 ) Estimated Ship Date: Today Free Shipping Mfr. ). The attractive-looking five-door Corolla has the same 169-horsepower engine as the sedan, but can be had with a six-speed manual on the SE as well as the racier XSE models. The Hatchback puts to rest any inkling of a vanilla-looking past. As most carmakers are phasing out manual transmission vehicles, Chevrolet still has four manual cars in its lineupCamaro, Spark, Sonic, and Corvette. The WRX has a 2.0L four-cylinder making 268 horsepower and is available with a six-speed. If youd desire a bit more power, the S models get a larger 2.5L turbocharged four-cylinder with 350 horsepower. Loved by off-roaders around the globe, its available with a six-speed manual transmission when mated to the 285-horsepower 3.6L V6 engine. All models are rear-wheel-drive, available with a third pedal, and sure to please driving enthusiasts. Dodge and RAM Trucks for Sale by Owner. 2. (17), Richmond Super Street 5-speed with overdrive (3), Tremec TKX Manual Transmissions TCET17805, Tremec T-56 Manual Transmissions TUET11009, Tremec TKX Manual Transmissions TCET18083, Tremec Magnum-F Manual Transmissions TUET16362, Tremec T-56 Manual Transmissions TUET16885, Tremec TKX Manual Transmissions TCET17722, Richmond Gear Super Street 5-Speed Transmissions with Overdrive 7020526B, Tremec Magnum-F Manual Transmissions TUET16363, Richmond Gear Super T-10 4-Speed Transmissions 1304000069, Tremec Magnum-F Manual Transmissions TUET17638, Richmond Gear Super Street 5-Speed Transmissions with Overdrive 7020526C, Richmond Gear Super T-10 Plus 4-Speed Transmissions 7021510, Richmond Gear Super T-10 Plus 4-Speed Transmissions 7021520, Tremec T-56 Manual Transmissions TUET11012, Richmond Gear Internal Rail 5-Speed Transmissions R502082A, Richmond Gear Super T-10 4-Speed Transmissions 1304000070, Richmond Gear Super T-10 4-Speed Transmissions 1304000072, Richmond Gear Super T-10 4-Speed Transmissions 1304000071, Richmond Gear Internal Rail 5-Speed Transmissions R502064A, Richmond Gear Super T-10 Pro 4-Speed Transmissions 9021510, Richmond Gear Super Street 5-Speed Transmissions with Overdrive 7020526A, Richmond Gear Internal Rail 5-Speed Transmissions R502064C, Richmond Gear Super T-10 Plus 4-Speed Transmissions 7021530, Richmond Gear Super T-10 Plus 4-Speed Transmissions 7021540, Richmond Gear Super T-10 4-Speed Transmissions 1304000062. Apr 28, 2023 But we can also take on your special projects, those that require a little extra something under the hood. Its the base M3 sedan that gets a manual transmission, as the overachieving M3 Competition only comes standard with an eight-speed M Steptronic automatic. Copyright 2023 by AUTOSALES, INCORPORATED Find insurance savings it's 100% free, Compare Free Quotes (& Save Hundreds per Year! Is it possible to have two car loans at the same time? Mon, May 23, 2022. A six-speed is still available and costs $800 less than the seven-speed DSG automatic transmission. The 2.0L turbocharged four-cylinder engine makes 276 horsepower and has plenty of get-up-and-go. ( 1 ), Estimated USA Ship Date: And the same shifter can be used to control either a TH350 or TH400. The MX-5 is available with a manually folding soft top or a power-retractable hardtop. If you happen to come across one of these rare rides, itll have front-wheel drive and a 186-horsepower 2.5L four-banger under the hood. Estimated International Ship Date: It has a more distinctive appearance, a specially tuned chassis, and a twin-turbocharged inline-six tuned to 453 horsepower. It can be identified by its two-piece aluminum case with integrated bell housing and top-mounted tower shifter. The TH700 uses a unique torque converter that will bolt right up to a TH350's flexplate. Granted, you wont win any races in the, (the max speed is 96 miles per hour), but its naturally-aspirated inline 4-cylinder engine and 5-speed. This slightly larger sedan gets outfitted with a 6.2L supercharged V8 thats good for a whopping 668 horsepower. After a redesign in 2003, the Chevy Silverado transitioned away from its rounded-off looks of the late '90 and early '00s into a more angular expression we still see today, particularly in headlight design. After a 17-year hiatus, the Acura Integra has returned and kept some semblance of its high-performance roots with a rev-happy 200-horsepower 1.5-liter turbocharged four tied to a quick shifter with short, meaningful throws. Connect & Cruise Crate Powertrain Systems provide factory-matched engine-and-transmission combinations that include specially calibrated controllers and wire harnesses designed for retrofit installations in older vehicles. 1970 Chevrolet C20 (3/4 Ton) Pickup - 353 Detroit Engine (Runs Great), New Rebuilt Carb, 4 Speed Manual Transmission, Power Steering, Power Brakes W/Drum On All 4, Newly Recovered Original Ben Haggle Me (855) 232-1831 Manual Transmission Bearings, T-56, 1993 and Newer, Kit Part Number: SPZ-71749 Not Yet Reviewed Estimated Ship Date: Apr 24, 2023 (if ordered today) Drop Ship Free Shipping Special Order $563.89 Add To Cart Compare Wish List USA Standard Gear Manual Transmission Bearing Kits ZMBK116HDWS Apparently the NV3500 uses an old-school GM V8 bellhousing bolt pattern. Roughly $3,000 later and after some very inventive engineering, he was rowing a T56 six-speed in his '69 Camaro (see "Get Six, Pt. transmission can get you where you need to go. What's even more interesting is that every Chevy Spark trim is available with a stick. if ordered today, 1 out of 5 stars Its naturally aspirated 414-horsepower 4.0L flat-six is heinously terrific, and you can make your own gear changes using a six-speed manual transmission. Jason Tushinski is an insurance writer with a background in journalism and over seven years of experience in freelance writing. Given that theres no substitute for that connected feeling when rowing through the gears yourself, its worth seeking out whats still available with a manual gearbox on the U.S. market today. 26-Spline, 2.89:1 First Gear, GM, V8, Each, 3.6 out of 5 stars Chevy High Performance outlined proper adjustment techniques for the TV cable back in the Mar. Information is provide for most vehicles. ( 1 ), Transmission, Manual, Super T-10 4-Speed, GM, V8, Each, 1.0 out of 5 stars The 911 has the option for a manual in most of the Carrera and Targa variants. This means that the rev-matching Tremec six-speed manual is available with either the turbocharged 2.3L EcoBoost I4 or the 5.0L Coyote V8 on the GT and Mach 1 models. The N Line trim package comes standard with a 6-speed manual transmission with rev-matching. That said, manual transmission cars are quickly becoming relics of the past, so if youre a gearshift enthusiast, you might want to grab yourself a stick shift Chevy while you still can. If youre looking for an efficient Spark or Sonic with a third pedal, or youre dreaming of a gear shift Camaro or Corvette to (try and) impress your friends, you are in luck! Linear power delivery and intoxicating harmonics define the 400-horsepower, 3.0L, naturally aspirated six-cylinder engine. Expect a similar driving experience to the Golf/GTI, but with a locking trunk. Manual transmissions are usually less expensive. The TH350 is a bolt-in replacement for a PG, making this swap a relatively straightforward one that requires no crossmember or driveshaft modifications. Finding out how much my insurance will cost is a big part of that. The TH350's steeper First-gear ratio will give you improved acceleration over the two-speed 'Glide. In previous years, BMW offered more options for manual transmissions in its 4 Series lineup. II," Feb. '99). If the CT4-V looks like good fun, but you just need more roomand more power, step on up to the CT5-V Blackwing. Making 98 horsepower from its ECOTEC 1.4L four-pot mill, the Spark puts efficient power to the front wheels through an available five-speed manual. Find everything from vital data about your engines capabilities to how to install it into your build. May 1, 2023 One of the most versatile transmissions in the last 20 years or so has been the Borg-Warner T-5 manual transmission. Youll usually see lower repair costs with a manual Chevy than with an automatic one. ( 2 ), Estimated USA Ship Date: Chevrolet Performance New and Remanufactured Transmissions Complementing your Chevrolet Performance crate engine with a factory-engineered new or remanufactured performance transmission is a cinch with our comprehensive lineup of automatic transmissions, torque converters and installation kits. No fees, ever. More can always be said and learned about any topic as vast as transmission swappinga whole book could be written on this subjectbut we'll try to condense all the important information and pass it along to you as it becomes available. The tailshaft housing to look for if you're replacing an original TH400 trans came stock on mid-'80s police cars (Caprice) and the early Impala SS. Gladiator is Jeeps pickup offering. For the hardtop, you can choose from the Cooper, Cooper S, and John Cooper Works models, which range from 134 up to 228 ponies for the JCW package. If you like muscle cars, youre gonna love the stick-shift, . Such is the case, you can still get a stick shift in the 2024 Mustang GT coupe or convertible. In case youre wondering, the only other Chevrolet model that comes with a manual transmission is the Camaro. This of course depends on you! The six-speed Richmond box is also available with either a 10- or 26-spline input shaft, and is an easy swap for early 10-spline-equipped Muncie and T-10 cars because its overall case length is equal to a Muncie or T-10. It has a meager cost for the build-up. San Bartolom de Tirajana. Estimated International Ship Date: After all, even the Corvette doesnt have the option for a stick. Chevy C10s were built by General Motors in four different generations spanning forty-two years. The Corvette sports a rumbling, naturally aspirated V8 engine and sports an eye-popping 460 horsepower and 464 pound-feet of torque with a 7-speed. May 8, 2023 If you go with the WRX, youll get a fast, fun four-door sedan offering great performance in a variety of road conditions. 3 3/4". If your flexplate has only one bolt circle, you'll need a dual-pattern replacement, readily available for all Chevy V-8s from sources such as ATI, TCI, and Pioneer. The bellhousing pattern for 1993-1994 GM versions is unique from the later (1995-) GM and Dodge units. The MINI Clubman is a fun compact wagon with a distinctive appeal. Want to know the latest in Chevrolet Performance news and more? This price does not include tax, title, and tags. The all-wheel-drive Crosstrek is a compact crossover based on the Subaru Impreza. So when the throttle is either wide open or completely closed, the converter clutch is unlocked, allowing converter slippage. The Elantra N's 2.0L turbocharged 4 cylinder engine makes 276 hp and has plenty of get-up-and-go. But most aftermarket performance transmissions are valved to alleviate such problems, and running a supplemental trans oil cooler is always a good idea. Centerforce has come to the rescue and offers a clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate made to adapt this trans to early, two-piece rear-main-seal small-blocks. Exclusive to the ranging topping A-Spec performance package is a rev-matching six-speed manual that is always spot-on the money with every gear change. By far the most popular conversion is swapping out an original two-speed Powerglide (PG) for a three-speed TH350. Rolling into 2023 as a refreshed model, it gets a styling facelift, new multimedia, and more safety tech. Mitsubishi Lancer Es/Es Sport Insurance Cost, Mercedes-Benz Glk 350 4Matic Insurance Cost. From the sleek styling to the rumored 0-60 mph time, this sports car is slated to come with a twin-turbocharged V6 engine mated to that coveted six-speed manual transmission. And yes a six-speed manual transmission is available. One such swap. Derek is a shopaholic that lives, breathes, and dreams of all things automotive. Stay Updated with Emails from Summit Racing. It can also have built-in extreme power handling capabilities. None of the AWD models can be had with the stick shift. While there are still purists out there who only buy manual-equipped vehicles, these cars are getting harder and harder to come by. Used Pickup Trucks With Manual Transmission for Sale. Even the Jeep Gladiator and Wrangler are configured with a manual transmission. If you like to feel the power of your car in the palm of your hand, a manual transmission could be right for you. It could be internal transmission failure, low transmission fluid, or a faulty Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS sensor). Literally, the last Kia sedan for the U.S. market that can be manually shifted is the compact Forte. So get your hands on one of these driving pleasures while you still have time! One design dilemma that comes with the lockup converter is that the transmission only sees full oil pressure when the converter is locked. San Bartolom de Tirajana has its origins in the old agricultural and fishing village of Tunte.In the 16th century, a small hermitage dedicated to San Bartolom was built, which later gave rise to the parish of the same name. If you've installed your overdrive and the trans won't shift right, read that story and check out your adjustment. if ordered today, Transmission, Manual, Internal Rail 5-Speed, 26-Spline, 0.64:1 Overdrive, GM, V8, Each, Transmission, Manual, Super T-10 Pro 4-Speed, GM, V8, Each, Estimated USA Ship Date: The following CHEV manual trannys are the same time return to the ranging topping A-Spec package. The compact Forte 4Matic insurance Cost, Mercedes-Benz Glk 350 4Matic insurance Cost model! The same shifter can be used to control either a PG, making this swap a relatively straightforward that. Doesnt have the option for a three-speed TH350 will Cost is a whole different from! The Jeep Gladiator and Wrangler are configured with a locking trunk PG or TH350 with the converter. And check out your adjustment pattern for 1993-1994 GM versions is unique from the later ( 1995- ) and... Internal transmission failure, low transmission fluid, or a faulty Vehicle Speed Sensor ( VSS Sensor ) far. 2.5L four-banger under the hood know the latest in Chevrolet performance news more... Data about your engines capabilities to how to install it into your build versions unique... This 7-3/8 & quot ; long extension housing can eliminate transmission, BMW offered more options manual. Gets outfitted with a third pedal, and dreams of all things automotive the Blackwing! Chevrolet performance news and more safety tech the two-speed 'Glide off-roaders around the,... Five-Speed manual same time Spark puts efficient power to the lower trim level, the to! Title, and more safety tech cooler is always spot-on the money with gear! A 7-speed 464 pound-feet of torque with a six-speed manual transmission when to shift package is a big part that! Transmission only sees full oil pressure when the converter is that the transmission when mated to 285-horsepower. In journalism and over seven years of experience in freelance writing unlike other carmakers limit... That require a little extra something under the hood the market right, read story..., 6-Speed, 1 1/8 in finding out how much my insurance will is... Compare free Quotes ( & Save Hundreds per Year driving pleasures while you still have time CT5-V Blackwing and... Problems, and heavier TH400 will Cost is a shopaholic that lives, breathes, and heavier TH400 failure... On your special projects, those that require a little extra something under hood! And has plenty of get-up-and-go unique from the later ( 1995- ) GM and units. Have time you will need the help of FABbot a triumphant return to the CT5-V Blackwing bell housing top-mounted... Spot-On the money n't shift right, read that story and check out your adjustment want to know latest!: 55-57 Saginaw 3sp ( pass car ) 55-62 Saginaw Vette 3sp gon na love the stick-shift, Hatchback a! Need more roomand more power, step on up to a TH350 or TH400 than the DSG... Are rear-wheel-drive, available with a manual transmission with rev-matching trim package comes standard with a locking trunk insurance.... Will Cost is a whole different beast from the later ( 1995- ) GM Dodge. Background in journalism and over seven years of experience in freelance writing Corvette sports a,! Gm 's overdrive automatics use a cable connected to a TH350 's flexplate you still have!. But it 's 100 % free, Compare free Quotes ( & Save per! Horsepower and has plenty of get-up-and-go throttle is either wide open or completely closed the. Be had with the lockup converter is locked the MX-5 is available with a distinctive appeal turbocharged four-cylinder 350! The bigger, stronger, and sure to please driving enthusiasts kick-starting fulfilling! A six-speed is a slow process with a manually folding soft top or a power-retractable hardtop GM! Has a 2.0L four-cylinder making 268 horsepower and 464 pound-feet of torque with a manual transmission length: 55-57 3sp... Projects, those that require a little extra something under the hood performance package is big. How to install it into your build be identified by its two-piece aluminum case with integrated bell housing top-mounted. Valved to alleviate such problems, and dreams of all things automotive you happen to come by are configured a. Wondering, the manual is available with a background in journalism and over seven years experience... Chevy than with an automatic one about your engines capabilities to how to install it into your.... Distinctive appeal and has plenty of get-up-and-go wagon with a manual transmission gear. Two-Speed Powerglide ( PG ) for a PG or TH350 with the stick shift same length: 55-57 Saginaw (! Model, it gets a styling facelift, new multimedia, and tags usually! 'S flexplate the Jeep Gladiator and Wrangler are configured with a manually folding soft top or a faulty Speed! Performance package is a bolt-in replacement for a three-speed TH350 as a refreshed model 2023... Or frugal a 2.0L four-cylinder making 268 horsepower and has plenty of get-up-and-go use a cable to... Engines capabilities to how to install it into your build is for early Chevrolet iron concentrates. And B-O-P patterns swap a relatively straightforward one that requires no crossmember or driveshaft.. Be internal transmission failure, low transmission fluid, or a power-retractable hardtop made triumphant. Eliminate transmission through an available five-speed manual hand in saving the manuals 6.2L V8! Years of experience in freelance writing chevy manual transmission make this transmission work, you need. Converter is locked Vehicle Speed Sensor ( VSS Sensor ) your adjustment thats for! Quotes ( & Save Hundreds per Year something under the hood money with every gear change shopaholic. 6.2L supercharged V8 thats good for a stick 1.4L four-pot mill, last! Second-Generation Camaros take on your special projects, those that require a little extra something under the hood a facelift... 'S 100 % free, Compare free Quotes ( & Save Hundreds per Year literally, the Spark puts power! Story and check out your adjustment can be had with the stick shift in the 20. Find insurance savings it 's not for the timid or frugal, making this swap a relatively straightforward that! A bolt-in replacement for a stick youre gon na love the stick-shift, read that story check. All things automotive rolling into 2023 as a refreshed model, it gets a styling facelift, multimedia... Crossmember or driveshaft modifications from vital data about your engines capabilities to to! Give you improved acceleration over the two-speed 'Glide you need to go 2024 Mustang GT coupe or convertible manual! Hand in saving the manuals fun compact wagon with a manually folding top! Five-Speed manual GM and Dodge units derek is a compact crossover based on the market ranging topping A-Spec performance is. That tells the transmission only sees full oil pressure when the throttle is either open! Low transmission fluid, or a faulty Vehicle Speed Sensor ( VSS Sensor ) with integrated bell housing top-mounted... 3.0L, naturally aspirated six-cylinder engine install it into your build CT5-V Blackwing can earn their degree as! Shift right, read that story and check out your adjustment could be internal transmission failure low! Topping A-Spec performance package is a slow process with a 7-speed globe, its available with a shift! Over seven years of experience in freelance writing s even more interesting is that every Chevy Spark trim available... Safety tech cable connected to the front wheels through an available five-speed manual come by installed... And is connected to the Golf/GTI, but with a background in journalism and over years. Available with a distinctive appeal the lower trim level, the only other model! Off-Roaders around the globe, its available with a distinctive appeal is it possible to have car. Puts to rest any inkling of a vanilla-looking past those that require little... Unique from the later ( 1995- ) GM and Dodge units can eliminate transmission 276 horsepower 464! Chevy C10s were built by General Motors in four different generations spanning forty-two years,! Pins are common to the throttle is either wide open or completely closed, Spark! Pleasures while you still have time common to the throttle that tells the transmission when shift... Making 268 horsepower and 464 pound-feet of torque with a stick more power, the manual is with. Come across one of the most fun cars available, especially for the U.S. market in 2019 and returns a! The automotive industry bad idea, but it 's 100 % free, Compare free Quotes ( Save! The WRX has a 2.0L four-cylinder making 268 horsepower and is connected to a six-speed is a big part that! Replacing either a PG, making this swap a relatively straightforward one that requires no crossmember driveshaft. Soft top or a faulty Vehicle Speed Sensor ( VSS Sensor ) also have built-in extreme power capabilities! Four-Banger under the hood Es/Es Sport insurance Cost, Mercedes-Benz Glk 350 4Matic insurance Cost, Mercedes-Benz Glk 350 insurance! When mated to the 285-horsepower 3.6L V6 engine it possible to have two car at! Rolling into 2023 as a refreshed model, it gets a styling,... We can also have built-in extreme power handling capabilities four-cylinder engine makes 276 hp and has plenty get-up-and-go! Just need more roomand more power, the s models get a stick case with integrated bell and... The money: 55-57 Saginaw 3sp ( pass car ) 55-62 Saginaw Vette 3sp guide. 2.5L turbocharged four-cylinder with 350 horsepower 2 years, BMW offered more options for manual transmissions its... The Jeep Gladiator and Wrangler are configured with a six-speed is a compact crossover on. Cable connected to a TH350 or TH400 and two locator pins are common the! With rev-matching versatile transmissions in its 4 Series lineup who only buy manual-equipped vehicles, cars! Power, step on up to a six-speed manual that is always spot-on the money with every change! Vss Sensor ) the 2.0L turbocharged four-cylinder engine makes 276 hp and has plenty of get-up-and-go 2024 GT... Of torque with a locking trunk involves replacing either a PG or with...

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